Wild Card with Rachel Martin: NPR

Lena Waithe shares why her least favorite thing is wrong.

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Vivien Killilea/Getty Images for Palm Springs In

Lena Waithe shares why her least favorite thing is wrong.

Vivien Killilea/Getty Images for Palm Springs In

A comment from Wild card host Rachel Martin:

Lena Waithe knows what she wants. She wants people to look outside their own lives and try to understand other people and the choices they make. Her TV shows and movies are these powerful little empathy engines.

Waithe became the first Black woman ever to win an Emmy for comedy writing on the show Master of none. She is also the creator of the comedy series Boomerang And Twenty. She wrote the film Queen & Slim and was a producer on the film Dear white people.

But for me, Waithe's is the real triumph The Chi. The show is set where she grew up on the South Side of Chicago. It's about black people who live on the margins of society and have little to no room for error. It's also about family, loyalty and joy. I love this show because it gives every character their full humanity. You can't put someone in a neat column of good or bad or say, “This person deserves respect and this person doesn't.” People are complicated, beautiful, and broken, and Waithe doesn't want you to look away, because if you do, you'll miss the truth she brings into the world — which is that judging people is harder when you start to understand them.

This Wild Card interview has been edited for length and clarity. Host Rachel Martin asks guests randomly selected questions from a deck of cards. Tap play above to listen to the full podcast, or read an excerpt below.

Question 1: When did you feel like you had found your people?

Lena Waithe: Michael Svoboda – who was a writer's PA The game when I was an assistant at Girlfriends – he and I were just really excited. And he was like, “Yo, I have a writers group that I'm in and write original pilots that we're working on to help us get some stuff done.” And I walked into that writers' group and I was excited to find all these wonderful people who I'm still close with today.

Rachel Martin: Tell me how that fits with your hometown of Chicago and your experience there, because it sounds like your people were writers. Didn't you have that somehow in Chicago?

Guard: I was a bit of an oddball in Chicago because I was obsessed with TV, obsessed with movies. For example, people go to the movies and watch TV shows – it's a pastime. And I think my family could see that it was more than that for me – I would just be fascinated by it and think about it.

Like, I have like a Wizard of Oz tattoo. I have Judy Garland. I have the lion. I have the scarecrow. I have it all, because that movie was more than a movie to me. It was almost like a bible for life.

It's like you always think there's something better than where you are now. But the truth is, when you go to the Emerald City and meet the wizard, you realize it's not really what you thought it was. And the only thing you want to do when you're in the Emerald City is go where?

Martin: At home.

Guard: Precisely. And it's a lesson none of us are really learning, yet. You know, we're still trying to say, “I have to go to the Wizard – as long as I can get to the Emerald City, everything will be fine.”

And then you get there and you say, “I'm still not doing well.” And so I think that's the big reason why Wizard of Oz is one such religion and a reminder for me is that there is no Emerald City that will feel like home.

Martin: Was that sad for you? Was there sadness associated with that?

Wait a second: No, it helped me slow down. Because the truth is, there’s always something that you want. And that’s okay, you know, you need that thing to make you want to go. But you have to remember that it’s nice when it happens. It’s going to be cool. But you don’t want it to be something that, if you don’t understand it, you can’t find happiness.

Question 2: What causes you to be irrationally defensive?

Wait a second: Irrational defensive? (laughs) Oh my god.

I don't like being wrong. My least favorite thing is when something goes wrong. And that could be in a lot of ways, you know, it would be a relationship, you know, some trivia, you know what I mean?

Martin: I love that they were in the same breath..

Guard: I know it's like a relationship, like Taboo, you know what I mean? I'm not good at not being good at things. So I can get defensive when I don't want to succeed at something.

Martin: When was the last time you were wrong about something?

Guard: Oh, recently. I thought there was a certain actress in it Game of Thrones. And she wasn't, and I was so angry because I was like, “Are you sure it's not her?” And I looked it up too. I thought, “Let me see, let me see!”

Martin: Right, of course! Because you believed with every fiber of your being that she was where she was Game of Thrones.

Guard: Really and truly. That's what I'm saying. I was so not happy about that at the time because I never get those things wrong, but it's okay.

Martin: We're going to forget that you were wrong. Nobody needs to know.

Guard: Now everyone knows.

Question 3: What is your best defense against despair?

Guard: Ooooooh. I love this quote from Baldwin. He tells Nikki Giovanni in a nice conversation they have where she thinks she is a pessimist. And he says, “No, you're a realist. You're cool, but you're not a pessimist.” He says, “Because you're alive.” And I think my greatest defense against despair is the fact that I'm alive. Is that I'm here. And while it may feel like a curse, being Earthside right now is the greatest gift.

And you can't run away from despair. You can try it. I love that Solange song, “Cranes in the Sky,” because it's all about the ways we try to run away. So you can try shopping it away, smoking it away, you know, like sex away. You can't.

Martin: So in particular, if it has come for you, do you just sit there and say an affirmation? Like, “I'm still alive?” You look in the mirror, you pinch yourself like…

Guard: No, I'm a sleeper. I'll try to sleep it away. I try to look The returnYou know, that's my favorite go-to.

Martin: Real? That brings you back from the brink of despair?

Guard: No, it just reminds me of a character who is so flawed. Yet I love and support so much. For example, Valerie Cherish is a seminal character for me. When I watch that show, I can't help but look at Valerie Cherish and say, “Okay. I'm fine, I'm fine.” You know, that character and that show, The returnLadies and gentlemen, go find it.

Martin: Despair beware!

Guard: If you're desperate, go watch the first season The return, Okay? And you'll say, “What am I experiencing? And I feel better now because I'm laughing and also like I'm completely ashamed.”